Sir Michael Stoute: 'I still enjoy it but probably not as much as I ever did'

This great interview with Newmarket legend Sir Michael Stoute, who has announced he will stop training at the end of the year , was originally published exclusively for Members' Club Ultimate subscribers in June. Members' Club Ultimate subscribers have access to superb interviews like this every week. Click here to sign up.

Talk about the horses, they said. Talk about the past. That's what he'll enjoy most.

As Sir Michael Stoute settles himself into a chair at Freemason Lodge, the intention of his interviewer is to follow the advice passed on by his friends. There will have to be questions about the present and potentially awkward inquiries about the future, but Stoute's past and some of the horses who graced its most halcyon period are going to be central to what comes next. That's what his friends recommended. Fortunately, it was always this fanboy's intention.

For someone who through childhood followed Stoute's stable no less avidly than a football supporter follows their team, it was too good an opportunity to miss. This was a bucket list moment, a first chance to sit down with a trainer who, along with long-time stable jockey Walter Swinburn, provided so much pleasure during years when the sport became an obsession.

In a bag at my feet is a decades-old scrapbook containing pictures of Stoute-trained stars from the 1980s. The hope was that bringing it might stimulate the interest of someone not necessarily renowned for relishing interviews, a 78-year-old whose extraordinary achievements over an extraordinarily long period have earned him legendary status.

It was 47 years ago that Stoute first tasted success at Royal Ascot, where he will return later this month with a small but select squad, sadly now minus Prince of Wales's Stakes favourite Passenger but still sprinkled with quality. The stable's representatives will be seeking to grow their trainer's remarkable tally of 82 winners at a meeting that this season affords him the opportunity to secure further Pattern honours, half a century after Blue Cashmere became Stoute's first Group-race victor in the 1974 Nunthorpe Stakes.

Sir Michael Stoute saddled his first Group-race winner at York 50 years agoCredit: Edward Whitaker

Before Blue Cashmere there were the blue waters of Barbados, where Stoute grew up as the son of a senior policeman. He became infatuated with horses at an early age and worked as a race commentator until Sir Eric Hallinan, a former colonial judge, made a phone call to Britain that resulted in Stoute, then just 19, leaving the Caribbean for Malton and a job with trainer Pat Rohan.

"I couldn't wait to get there – and when I got there I wasn't disappointed," says Stoute. "It was totally exciting. The hard thing was the weather. There was a mile-and-a-half walk in wellies to get to work but we were told we had to leave the wellies outside, which meant I was full of cold morning, noon and night. I got used to it because I had to get used to it. I was happy. It was all so fascinating."

Stoute learned much from Rohan but more from his employer's head lad, the 1946 Champion Hurdle-winning rider Bobby O'Ryan.

"Pat was as mad as a hatter," says Stoute. "I took his work ethic and knowledge but it was Bobby who really educated me. He was happy to teach me because he knew I was keen to learn. We had Saturday evening pints together at a pub a mile away from his house. I was teetotal until I started going to this pub. After having three pints of bitter I used to puke. It put me off beer forever."

There were stints with Doug Smith and Tom Jones before Stoute took out a licence to train from Newmarket's Cadland Stables in 1972. Two of his winners in that debut year were Alphadamus and Blue Cashmere. They would go on to claim the Stewards' Cup and Ayr Gold Cup at three.

"Blue Cashmere was a proper horse, handsome, beautiful and balanced," says Stoute. "There was lots of publicity when he won the Ayr Gold Cup because his owner, Sir Raymond Clifford Turner, loved a bet and had a big punt on the horse. I had a few quid on too, but not as much as he did. I owe a lot to him."

Sir Michael Stoute speaks to work-rider Ted Durcan at the top of the Long Hill gallop in NewmarketCredit: Edward Whitaker

There follows the first of many pauses.

"There you are," he then says. "Good days. Good days."

Asked if Blue Cashmere had been important in kickstarting his career, there is no need for thinking time.

"Absolument," says Stoute, who goes on to reveal a penchant for dipping into French. "Par hasard" comes up twice but it was not by chance that he went on to be crowned Britain's champion Flat trainer on ten occasions. The first of those titles was won in 1981, the year Shergar assured himself of becoming the greatest horse Stoute would ever train – although by then his fellow Newmarket resident Henry Cecil had already been champion three times.

"I had a bit of ground to make up on Henry," says Stoute, who then volunteers an anecdote that involves his daughter, Caroline, her mother, Pat, and a particularly merry Cecil.

"Everybody says I was great friends with Henry from early on," he begins. "When I tell them I wouldn’t say that, they point out he was godfather to my daughter – but that goes back to when Pat was pregnant and we went to a cocktail do.

"Henry used to drink a bit in those days. That particular night he touched Pat's tummy and asked when the baby was coming. After Pat told him, a pissed Henry suddenly declared he was going to be the baby's godfather. Pat related all this to me as we were going home. 'I hope you told him to f*** off,' I said, to which Pat replied she couldn't possibly have done that. I said, 'Bollocks', Pat told me to grow up and Henry became godfather to Caroline. He never forgot a birthday. Caroline and Henry's daughter, Katie, are still the very best of friends now."

Ajdal storms to victory in what is now known as the Nunthorpe Stakes in 1987Credit: Mark Cranham

As he talks, Stoute plays with a pen that escapes from his fingers and falls to the floor. It is not, however, a sign his mind is wandering. That becomes ever more obvious when the scrapbook comes out and he sees a picture of Ajdal, winner of the July Cup, Nunthorpe and Haydock's Sprint Cup in 1987.

"Ajdal!" says his trainer, holding on to the word as if keen never to let it go. It is as endearing as the next comment is surprising.

"I f***ed up," he says. "I was running him over too far. I got it very wrong. He was a speed horse."

To be fair to Stoute, that horse was hardly disgraced when finishing ninth in the Derby one month before his reinvention at Newmarket.

"Tony Kimberley was very influential," says Stoute of one of his former jockeys. "After the Derby I said we needed to drop him back in trip. Tony said to drop him right back because he was a serious sprinter who was so good and honest that he ran respectably when we put him over too long a trip.

"He was very good in the July Cup but even better after that because by then we were training him as a sprinter. Ajdal was class, real class."

At this point, Stoute's phone rings.

Sir Michael Stoute with daughter Caroline Stoute on the Al Bahathri gallop in NewmarketCredit: Edward Whitaker

"Hello, darling," he says to daughter Caroline. "He's quizzing me about Ajdal. He's a pain in the arse but he says he means well."

It's a cue for Stoute to produce one of his booming laughs. The hilarity is interrupted when the scrapbook is opened on pages featuring Shahrastani, the dual Derby hero of 1986 and a supremely brilliant performer, even if invariably cast in the shadow of his Epsom victim Dancing Brave.

"The Irish Derby told you how good he was," says Stoute. "What did he win that by? Eight lengths? That was a pity, really. Swinburn was just too young. If you're winning an Irish Derby by that big a margin you're giving your horse a very hard race for no reason."

Stoute believes the exertions from that day must have impacted Shahrastani's performance in the King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes, in which Dancing Brave exacted his revenge, establishing a level of superiority that was confirmed in the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe.

"People underrate Shahrastani but Dancing Brave was just better, a total machine," says Stoute. He then goes quiet for a while. When the conversation restarts, it becomes apparent his mind has moved back to Ireland.

"You can't go winning an Irish Derby like that," he says. "It was a hot day at the Curragh, as hot as you'll ever get it. I was worried when it happened. Walter was very young. He was winning too far on those top-class horses."

Shahrastani and Walter Swinburn (green and red silks) hold off Dancing Brave to win the 1986 DerbyCredit: Gerry Cranham

There is more to be said by Stoute about his relationship with Swinburn, who died in 2016 aged 55. First, though, he sees a picture of the superb miler Sonic Lady, who completed a quartet of Group 1 victories in the Irish 1,000 Guineas, Coronation Stakes, Sussex Stakes and Prix du Moulin.

"Ooh, gosh," he says, again keeping hold of the word.

"The pace she had, the strength she had, the mind she had," he says when asked what made her so special. "Cliff Lines had beautiful hands and did a great job calming her at home because you had to keep her cool. Both she and Milligram were very good fillies but Sonic Lady had real acceleration and power."

There was, however, a better miler not long off being unleashed. The time has come to talk about the magnificent Zilzal, a prodigious athlete whose career lasted just a single season.

"I loved him," says Stoute. "He was a machine, such a serious horse. It was tragic he didn’t stay in training. He was a very immature horse, mentally and physically, but he was becoming calmer and easier. Oh, my goodness gracious me, what a horse he would have been at four. I begged Sheikh Maktoum but he said he would have been too nervous to run him."

Zilzal and Walter Swinburn were a potent force for Michael Stoute in 1989Credit: Mark Cranham

Zilzal, Sonic Lady, Shahrastani and Ajdal were all ridden by Swinburn, as was Shergar, who made his 19-year-old rider a household name when carrying him to an iconic ten-length Derby stroll in 1981. That was Swinburn's first year as Stoute's stable jockey, a role in which he enjoyed other standout moments aboard the likes of Marwell, Shareef Dancer, Shadeed, Shardari, Green Desert, Ajdal, Unite, Doyoun, Aliysa and Musical Bliss. Even after the formal ties were broken, Swinburn and Stoute reunited for memorable wins with Ezzoud, Soviet Line, Pilsudski and Exclusive.

"I think it was his age," says Stoute when asked why his association with Swinburn still endures so strongly and fondly in the consciousness of the racing public.

"Walter had great natural talent but it all happened too soon. I didn't want to give him the job so early but everything suddenly exploded. Lester Piggott had been riding for me in 1980 but then Henry pulled him up the hill to Warren Place and Peter Walwyn offered Walter his job. I had to go full throttle. The Swinburns knew how to negotiate and said Walter wouldn't take the job unless he could ride all of mine."

It is evident Stoute believes he wishes the appointment had been made when Swinburn was older.

"Yes," he says, his voice louder than at any point in our conversation. "He was winning races by 15 lengths. It was all new to him, it all happened too quickly and he was being wild. It was Walter this and Walter that. He needed bollocking and a kick up the arse. Anyway, he grew up and became a great jockey."

Sir Michael Stoute on Walter Swinburn: "He grew up and became a great jockey"Credit: Edward Whitaker

Other great ones followed, not least Kieren Fallon and Ryan Moore.

"It was too difficult with Walter in the early days but I understood Kieren," says Stoute. "A lot of people didn't but I did. He could be wild and reckless but it didn't impact his riding. I knew that when the 1.30 race was coming up, his mind would be focused. When the bell rang for the first round, he was ready to rumble.

"Ryan is so composed and calm. He is a different animal. He had to move on but we had a wonderful period together and he still rides for us any time he can."

Fallon and Moore partnered Stoute's third, fourth and fifth Derby winners, Kris Kin, North Light and Workforce, but it was Richard Kingscote who two years ago guided the ill-fated Desert Crown to Epsom glory 41 years after Shergar's tour de force.

It was also in 2022 that Stoute's number of winners dropped to 36, then his lowest total since the early years of his career. Last year he recorded 29 British winners from only 190 runners, his prize-money return of £783,181 leaving him 33rd in the championship table. Inevitably, that has left people wondering whether retirement could be imminent.

"We'll work it out," he replies after agreeing that, at some point, he might decide the time has come to stop.

"I still enjoy it, but probably not as much as I ever did," he continues. "I'll play it off the wicket. No decisions at this stage. It will all develop. It's no big deal. It can't be much longer but there we are."

Sir Michael Stoute, pictured with Crystal Ocean following his success in the Prince of Wales's Stakes, has trained 82 Royal Ascot winnersCredit: Edward Whitaker

Asked if this might be his final Royal Ascot as a trainer, the cricket lover repeats his cricket metaphor.

"I'm just playing it off the wicket," he says. Then he laughs again, knowing the bowler has been easily seen off.

Whenever it does all end, Stoute will miss not just the horses but also the people around them.

"It's a team job and I've always tried to promote that," he says. "I've worked with some very dedicated people and very gifted horsemen and women. It has been a delight to watch them and talk to them. Team spirit was high at Pat Rohan's as well."

There is another pause for reflection.

"It was calmer in those days," he says thoughtfully, the observation appearing to come from nowhere. "It was just two lots, 70 horses, 35 in each lot. You would come back and pick grass for half an hour. It was so chilled. Now it's vroom-vroom-vroom."

I suggest that with fewer animals in his care compared to the championship-chasing years, it might be enjoyable to be living a life with a little less vroom-vroom-vroom.

"No," he says, his voice filled with conviction. "I would like 15 Group horses."

Sir Michael Stoute: "I would like 15 Group horses"Credit: Edward Whitaker

He already has one 2024 Group winner in his care, with Passenger now set to be aimed at the Coral-Eclipse, having frustratingly met with a setback on the cusp of Royal Ascot. Nonetheless, with the likes of Never So Brave, Fox Journey and Starlore all holding winning claims, there could yet be plenty for Stoute to like when he once again dons his shiny silk topper.

"We've been very lucky at Royal Ascot," he says. "Mind you, we've always geared up for it from the very beginning. It's a special meeting, stressful but exciting. We won't be sending many this year but we've had a good run there, for which we're very grateful."

I point out that the run is not yet over. Stoute laughs once again, by now on his feet and heading for the door.

"Good luck," he says. It's also his way of saying goodbye.

The scrapbook goes back in the bag. All those years later, more memories have been made.

This interview is exclusive to Members' Club Ultimate subscribers. Read more pieces from Lee Mottershead here:

‘No-one knew how good she was - but all the owners and quite a few of my friends did. They absolutely smashed into her’ 

'It was for more than the craic. It was for the money' - 50 years on, the Gay Future gambling coup is no less extraordinary 

'I've been prepared to put my balls on the line. Sometimes things have worked out. Sometimes they haven't' 

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